Curse

Roken · Apr 12, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I don't know how most of you feel about this, but I have played my fair share of MMO's and sometimes I think its best that you don't read, use, or make guides, maps, and etc. for the first time you experience a game. Sure you want the best built character, and the credit for helping out the community, but I don't support using these for your first gaming experince. The reason is the sense of risk is what makes the game fun. If you base your builds like every other person using the guide, you will not have an originaly built toon, and you will be just like ever other player with your profession(s). Go experiment, see what works, and if it does, you may have just struck gold with your character.

Also, I think it is better to explore around and see the sights before you jump right into grabbing the maps for the "quicker" route. Instead of watching whats around you, and this game is very beautiful, you will be wondering "Is this the right way as it is on the map?".

Plus, if you follow a guide and speed through a game, you will miss half the fun. You may never see that rare mob that wasnt included in the guide, or see that beautiful view for the first time. I say its too early to start making these things, and if you toss in some wrong info, then you could end up hurting a player more than helping.

Yes, I know its still in beta, but their are already maps, guides, and etc. that are coming out. Get your hands dirty, go explore, and experiment a little

.

Happy hunting!

Aladdar · Apr 12, 2005, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Obviously we agree with making them as that's what we do here.

However, I also understand your statement. To me, coming across a ridge and being stopped dead in my tracks by some beautiful site is tons of fun and can be missed. I obviously also recommend doing your fair share of exploring in this game as well. The sites and sounds are well worth it. And who knows, we may have missed some uber quest that you'll miss if you don't explore.

However, I do think they're a great thing to have to help you find something you're looking for or help you with an area you're stuck in.

Cyris · Apr 12, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

I think maps are alrite, but skill guides and guides that tell u wat combos are best etc... i think arnt that good. Guides to amour and weps are good too!

EDIT: shoulda put it in the last resort thing cause i will use quest guides if i get stuck!

Synthos · Apr 12, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

For me i think theres a difference in Reading about skills or looking at a map then actually going there and exploreing it for yourself or using the skills in combat. So its good for the guides to be there for people who want them, if people dont want to look at the guides then they wont. Im generally against looking at the maps, because i want to explore everything myself. But i do use them on occasion to look at places ive been to or to find the best way to travel to a town ive been to.

After the game is released?
There is no WAY im looking at the guides for a while, i want to expore all the new areas myself.

vai demine · Apr 12, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

To really decide if you're against a "guide" you need to consider the purpose of the guide. Is it a spoiler-ridden walkthrough? If so, than yeah, I can agree with you that it takes the fun out of the game.

But that's not what this site is about. I can't remember reading any posts that say "if you do such and such you'll level up wicked fast." Or "this profession will totally kill in PvP." And I dont recall MOOMANiBE telling anyone to forget the scenery, print out a poster-size version of his map, and race to Riverside to do some awesome farming.

We're sharing information that we've found, trying to make everyone's experience in the game that much more enjoyable. Nothing wrong with that. Of course, if you don't like it, that's okay too--just don't read anything written by Saus or Ensign, you might accidentally learn something...

Vai

Roken · Apr 12, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by vai demine

To really decide if you're against a "guide" you need to consider the purpose of the guide. Is it a spoiler-ridden walkthrough? If so, than yeah, I can agree with you that it takes the fun out of the game.

But that's not what this site is about. I can't remember reading any posts that say "if you do such and such you'll level up wicked fast." Or "this profession will totally kill in PvP." And I dont recall MOOMANiBE telling anyone to forget the scenery, print out a poster-size version of his map, and race to Riverside to do some awesome farming.

We're sharing information that we've found, trying to make everyone's experience in the game that much more enjoyable. Nothing wrong with that. Of course, if you don't like it, that's okay too--just don't read anything written by Saus or Ensign, you might accidentally learn something...

Vai

Very true, I should have clearly specified what I ment when I said guides. I mean spoiler guides, and guides that tell you ways to beat a boss, quest, and etc. Also, in saying "These have already come out." I mean maps, not guides. I know MOON is not saying "Drop everything you do now and use this map", or "Use this map and don't look at anything in game.", but it doesnt matter what he says, its how people use it. He can't mind control them and make them stop and look around.

Yes, guides that show you what an ability does is perfectly fine, by me. There's nothing wrong with helping others learn a little quicker than you did.

Cain · Apr 12, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I never use guides the first time I play through a game. Sure I might miss a lot, but I get more enjoyment out of it. I once ruined a game from using guides and I vowed never to do it again.

Sennarc · Apr 12, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roken

I don't know how most of you feel about this, but I have played my fair share of MMO's and sometimes I think its best that you don't read, use, or make guides, maps, and etc. for the first time you experience a game. Sure you want the best built character, and the credit for helping out the community, but I don't support using these for your first gaming experince. The reason is the sense of risk is what makes the game fun. If you base your builds like every other person using the guide, you will not have an originaly built toon, and you will be just like ever other player with your profession(s). Go experiment, see what works, and if it does, you may have just struck gold with your character.

Also, I think it is better to explore around and see the sights before you jump right into grabbing the maps for the "quicker" route. Instead of watching whats around you, and this game is very beautiful, you will be wondering "Is this the right way as it is on the map?".

Plus, if you follow a guide and speed through a game, you will miss half the fun. You may never see that rare mob that wasnt included in the guide, or see that beautiful view for the first time. I say its too early to start making these things, and if you toss in some wrong info, then you could end up hurting a player more than helping.

Yes, I know its still in beta, but their are already maps, guides, and etc. that are coming out. Get your hands dirty, go explore, and experiment a little

.

Happy hunting!

Why does everyone think that theirway of enjoying the game is the same way that everyone needs to enjoy the game. No matter which way you slice it someone will find a different level of enjoyment from the game that someone else will. Therefore, the graphics may be beautiful, but there will be a large group of people who won't really notice too much. As far as the sense of risk is concerned, it is still going to be there. If you have read anything about this game at all you would know that they built it on the concept that the Skill of player will determine who wins, not how many hours you plugged in to reach a certain level. In retrospect, maybe you should just enjoy the game as you do without worrying about how someone else enjoys the game.

Personally, I'm not going to use any sort of assistance other than to check out other peoples builds and calculate ways to improve my character. If everyone went around not telling another person how to do anything, then you would be loosing a rich aspect of the community that helps the game more closely resemble real life. would it not?

BunnyMaster · Apr 12, 2005, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyris

I think maps are alrite, but skill guides and guides that tell u wat combos are best etc... i think arnt that good. Guides to amour and weps are good too!

Hmm. Then please explain me what the difference is between skill-guides and weapon-guides.

Furthermore, except for some minority posting, I never read a guide saying: "OMGOSHH!! ThIs bUILt WiLl ROXX0RZZZZ !!!!11ONEONE". Most of them will state a build that could be used in a certain situation with a certain team against a certain enemy (etc. etc.).

Aria · Apr 12, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Hi everyone!

Just to throw in my $0.02 (don't tell Spooky that I've been robbing his piggy bank to fling change around like this), like Aladdar, I do see where Roken is coming from. However, I also agree very strongly with some of the replies that this matter is a purely personal affair. What is fun for someone might be an awful drag, and might come across as the most boring thing in the world. Each person defines their likes, dislikes, and their definition of what it means to be happy differently, as act accordingly.

As long as they don't run around screaming "HAHA SUCKER!@ YOU ACTUALLY DO THE WHOLE THING YOURSELF!!@" .. I don't see the harm in guides.

I do know that we won't openly display things so that you might inadvertently stumble across spoilers.. but it's often quite easy to just ignore the link right in front of you.

As for me personally, after running around lost for hours, I do get that overpowering urge to just throw open a map (Mooman saves my life) -- after all, I don't have all the time in the world that I wish I had (and I tend to get lost even in closets!) People should definitely take time to smell the flowers and enjoy the game, but in some cases, personal preferences differ. Mine tends to sway towards the "take it slow" route, but I'm just one person.. and a rather strange one at that.

I do appreciate you bringing this up though, Roken.

The art in this game is especially gorgeous.. and deep down, I do wish that everyone will take the time to go out and explore, and find that breathtaking landscape crafted in meticulous detail by the talented artists at ANet.

Everyone please enjoy the last BWE!

.. Aria

SisterMercy · Apr 12, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Actually, there's been a few times already that I've found myself PvE-ing in circles, so MOOMANiBE's map has already been very valuable to me without spoiling the fun of exploring or having to continually use the map to 'port back to the same starting point. I guess it depends on how much the map really gives away.

Loviatar · Apr 12, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

I like to explore and am completely pve.

i also use detailed *spoiler* guides to see if there is something i missed and if so use that information to find the little nook or cranny i missed.

There is a useful place for them

Roken · Apr 12, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sennarc

Why does everyone think that theirway of enjoying the game is the same way that everyone needs to enjoy the game. No matter which way you slice it someone will find a different level of enjoyment from the game that someone else will. Therefore, the graphics may be beautiful, but there will be a large group of people who won't really notice too much. As far as the sense of risk is concerned, it is still going to be there. If you have read anything about this game at all you would know that they built it on the concept that the Skill of player will determine who wins, not how many hours you plugged in to reach a certain level. In retrospect, maybe you should just enjoy the game as you do without worrying about how someone else enjoys the game.

Personally, I'm not going to use any sort of assistance other than to check out other peoples builds and calculate ways to improve my character. If everyone went around not telling another person how to do anything, then you would be loosing a rich aspect of the community that helps the game more closely resemble real life. would it not?

I never once said "this is the best way to enjoy the game". The first sentence clearly shows thats what I think. I was merly expressing my opinion on the matter, and seeing what others thought, hence the poll.

DarkWasp · Apr 12, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I like games with big maps that you have to keep looking at, its just fun.

And i love stratigy guides and all, something to read.

(I love SimCity 2000 guides the best!)

Ensign · Apr 12, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Reading guides is no different from hacking the game - it's blatant cheating of the highest order. Guide-readers are scum, barely worthy of a quick, painless death. Lumbering, emaciated things they are, like junkies who never see the sun. Those who write guides? Minor demons in their own right, straight from the bowels of the abyss. They exist solely to devour your soul, and take all the fun out of gaming.

It is not too late to turn back! You too can escape the endless spiral of guide reading and cheating, and return to the land of pure fun! Join my guild of non-guide readers, and revel in the bliss of ignorant gaming! They may have their uber characters and the fame and fortune that comes with it, but you still have your integrity, and that's what really matters, doesn't it?

Doesn't it?

Bah, screw you guys. Don't say I didn't try.

Peace,
-CxE

Weezer_Blue · Apr 12, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Depends what the guide is on. Maps? Sure. Love em. But I don't like people who can't make up their own build and just steal one from the directory seeing as half the fun and skill involved is tactical - and that means making your own builds. As to the newb stuff like how to make a guild and all that, well, of course you need it. Or how would newbs know what to do? (PS: they aren't exactly newbs if they learn the game extremely quickly.)

jdwoody · Apr 12, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24

I usually like to run around a bit on my own, but it's nice to have the guides to make sure you don't miss something. I entered the academy the first time without getting the skills and belt that would have made the after searing alot more fun so I kinda wish I'd known about the guide beforehand...

Dreamsmith · Apr 12, 2005, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Those who write guides? Minor demons in their own right, straight from the bowels of the abyss. They exist solely to devour your soul, and take all the fun out of gaming.

So remember, kids, make sure your Circle of Protection is secure before contacting Those Who Write Guides. All information comes with a price...

Luggage · Apr 13, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Those who write guides? Minor demons in their own right, straight from the bowels of the abyss. They exist solely to devour your soul...

So you are going to play some Necro after all?

Rizzen Khalazar · Apr 13, 2005, 01:25 PM // 13:25

I think guides and maps are awesome. I have written some for other games. They are an invaluable part of gaming these days. I hope people keep making them!